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The Scandalous Press Conference with Zinchenko
Ukrains’ka pravda, 5 September 2005
[Translated by Olga Bogatyrenko for UKL]
[Original Text]
The press conference with Zinchenko was truly scandalous. Why the ex-Secretary
of State submitted a letter of resignation was the main puzzle of the
past weekend.
There were rumors that he “couldn’t work” with Yushchenko's
team, that he did not like the atmosphere, that Zinchenko himself could
not really do his job and that it was the only possible solution for him.
The fact that Yushchenko let his ex-Secretary of State go without further
consideration on the same day suggests that the President also did not
like too much how Zinchenko was doing his job.
Zinchenko's statement was almost identical to the scandalous live broadcast
with Tymoshenko’s ex-assistant, Mykhailo Brodskyi. He talked about
corruption in Yushchenko’s circle. He mentioned Poroshenko, Tretyakov
and Martynenko and demanded their dismissal. Just like Brodskyi, he did
not present hard evidence of corruption, only hinted at re-distribution
of private property and reprivatization.
According to his own statement, he had told Yushchenko everything he knew.
Who accepted his resignation. This means one thing - either Yushchenko
does not believe Zinchenko, or he agrees to have an open corruption scandal
in his administration.
Zinchenko's statement impressed journalists. Most of those who could
get a seat at that press-conference, gave him a standing ovation after
his statement.
At the same time, the weakness in his statement was that he read all of
it, without ever raising his eyes. He did not name any specific facts
when he talked about corruption in Yushchenko’s circle. And, while
he was making his remarks, he never looked in Poroshenko’s eyes.
The ex-Secretary of State, Oleksandr Zinchenko, accuses the secretary
of the Defense and Security Council, Petro Poroshenko, the first presidential
aide, Oleksandr Tretyakov, and the leader of the parliamentary fraction
“Our Ukraine,” Mykola Martynenko.
“A small group of political entrepreneurs are trying to use the
result of efforts of millions of Ukrainian patriots for their private
purposes. Having created their own clique LTD, having established an information
blockade of the President, having presented him with a virtual, not with
a real state of affairs, having cynically distorted the reality and certain
aspects of this reality, having disregarded hopes and beliefs of their
compatriots they are following their plan to use their power to the maximum
extent possible for the accumulation of private capital, to privatize
and gain possession of all that is possible.
Their goal is monopoly, the transfer of governmental powers to private
hands. Keep in mind that their circle is very small and that they are
very distant from the people.
If we do not stop these process in a firm and timely fashion, there will
be a counterrevolution in the country.
Criticism about a few in the President’s circle needs to be made
more specific. Let me name a few names. The Secretary of the National
Defense and Security Council Poroshenko, the First Presidential Aide Tretyakov,
some of their partners such as Martynenko, are cynically and systematically
implementing their scenario of using the government for their private
purposes.
This scenario has the following key components: property, courts, law
enforcement, bureaucracy, mass media, the government. Poroshenko himself
insisted on and finally achieved an illegal transfer of law enforcement
institutions under the control of the Security Council, even though they
should by definition by independent.
The protests of representatives of law enforcement institutions were not
heard – just like a voice in a desert. Instead of an expected reform
we are listening to the societal outcry about the injustice of what should
be the pinnacle of justice.
Again, just like in Kuchma’s times, one can use the phone and put
direct pressure on the courts.
The land reform, in Poroshenko’s version, is turning into a system
of gaining control over the most important state resource, there happens
an open and cynical pressure on subjects of agricultural activity by threatening
loss of a part of their private property. On entrepreneurs of Kyiv, Odessa,
Donetsk, Illichivsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Vinnytsya, Chernivtsi – a too
familiar pattern.
In order to gain full freedom a certain system of subduing institutions
of law enforcement in place… An utter example of cynicism and lawlessness
is an attempt to make the Defense and Security Council into a new Ministry
of Internal Affairs, omnipotent and all-powerful.
The First Presidential Aide, Tretyakov, is following the exact same pattern
as his predecessor in Kuchma’s administration, Lyovochkin, would
having become a part of oversight committees of Oshchadbank, Ukrtelekom,
publishing affairs, and controlling processes in oil and gas spheres.
It is exactly due to his efforts that Mr. Voronov who was in charge of
gas planning under Kuchma was reinstated as the head of NAK “Naftogaz”,
Zinchenko stated.
“Today, Tretyakov actively works in the sphere of redistribution
of spheres of influence in the mass media. It was exactly him who cut
the President off from the inflow of adequate information, covering up
for certain people. It is not too hard to do, to organize, or rather disorganize,
the President’s schedule so as to control access to him. Those who
have their own thoughts and opinions that are outstanding and bright have
to wait for 3-5 months for the Aide’s charity”, Zinchenko
continued.
According to him, for those who “worked for the victory of the revolution
as much as Tretyakov or Poroshenko” there is no other way to get
to the President.
“Poroshenko, Tretyakov and Co, as if these are the President’s
wishes, appoint their own people everywhere possible, intentionally put
pressure on the independent law-enforcement system, reign free in privatization
processes”, the ex-Secretary of State said.
“It seems that that’s exactly the area in which the demand
of the Maidan should be met – separation of state and business.
It concerns you, Petro Oleksiyovych”, - turned Zinchenko to Secretary
of the Security Council Poroshenko who was also attending the press conference.
In fact, they not just disregard it, they think that “if the government
is ours – it has to work for us”.
“It seems that what is happening is a refinement of weaknesses of
Kuchma’s system, they even create a party that is not like a political
organization but like a business club, like a symbol of administrative
resources”, he said.
“Well, so if the group is so small, why are the achievements of
the revolution under threat? The answer is simple – those who are
the source of this threat have great resources at their disposal that
allow them to influence state processes, to monopolize influence on the
President”, he stated.
He also added that on several occasions he asked the President to “stop
Poroshenko”. “During recent meetings, dismissal of Poroshenko
and Co was one of key conditions under which I would agree to keep working
on the President’s team”, he said.
Zinchenko also mentioned that he did not talk about it before because
he “wanted to achieve maximum unity of the team”. He underscored
that he believed the Secretariat to be one of the key factors influencing
the team’s unity.
He also thanked Yushchenko for an “especially bright” and
long period of cooperation, for trusting him to chair his apparatus, for
patience.
“However, everybody has his choice – and some can settle for
collusion. Then they can go to their places and work peacefully. Calmly
and without worries. Me, however, I do not want to tolerate this insult
over the law, and I made my choice on the Maidan”, he said.
He emphasized that he was not talking about the structure of the apparatus
or additional powers. “My resignation aims to make a firm and public
statement to the President, in the first place, and also to the whole
team about the severity of the situation. And those who believe that this
lawlessness has survived and will stay in place are mistaken. I am not
bargaining for dividends, little factories or special treatments, I believe
in taking measures. In the first place, I believe in fulfilling those
promises that we made on the Maidan and that the President made in Sorochintsy
on 24 August – in renewing the cadres”, he said.
He also discussed those promises on whose fulfillment he is ready to work
with the President’s team. He suggested returning the constitutionality
of action to all the institutions of the government. “The architecture
[of the government] needs to be clear and understandable. Both for the
citizens and for all the bureaucrats”, he said.
He also suggested that the Defense and Security Council needs to return
to “collective work”, that is “to normal procedures
of working on and preparing state decisions”. He emphasized that
the institution must only be an auxiliary one.
Zinchenko also demanded to dismiss the Secretary of the Security Council
Poroshenko and create a Presidential Council from most influential members
of the society as an arena for public discussion of the most salient problems
of the country’s present. He emphasized that such a council will
not be a substitution for the Security Council. Zinchenko drew attention
to the fact that in order to resume societal control over institutions
“it is necessary to use the potential of corresponding institutions
to the maximum.”
Zinchenko asked not to allow discord within the law enforcement and the
executive branches of the government and also to dismiss all who cause
discord.
“The practice of having leaders from high echelons on councils of
national companies and enterprises, leaders who seek personal enrichment,
should be stopped. I think the President has every reason to initiate
an open and public discussion of acute problems at the highest level in
different formats. This is the only way to resolve conflicts and not to
create them. Otherwise, the Orange revolution will be destroyed in what
it has created. It was the Revolution that lifted from their knees those
who had been absolutely sure about the impossibility of deep democratic
changes in Ukraine. However, the skeptics were wrong. The Orange Revolution
did win. I am sure it will win again today. Without a doubt!” Zinchenko
finished his statement.
Zinchenko answered the question about the President’s reaction to
his designation as follows: he said that “the first symptoms of
it were obvious in March and May. Back then, according to Zinchenko, it
had to do with the part of the Presidential decree on the institutions
of the law enforcement.”
“For a very long time, I tried to convince the President not to
sign the document that puts the Security Council in control of the law
enforcement”, he said.
He also stated that dismissing those he named is his condition for “real
renewal of the team work”.
“Without a doubt, our President, I think, is expecting and has been
expecting that his colleagues, some of whom are here today, will gather
strength before the session is over to submit resignation letters asking
to be relieved of their parliamentary duties, and will not to camouflage
the situation, not to send the letter to the address of a committee to
prolong the matter”, Zinchenko said.
“We have already seen these tricks and we are perfectly aware of
how to handle them”, he added.
The ex-Secretary of State said that the “canons of corporate ethics”
prevented him from making this statement before, when he was still in
the position of the Secretary of State.
“It would not have been correct to the President, and to the position
that I occupied. Today, I am making this statement as a public politician
who is free to discuss any issues,” he said.
About whether Zinchenko had told the President about the situation in
the Secretariat before and about the President’s reaction, Zinchenko
said that “there was a reaction, and overall there are reasons to
say that the President is concerned about the situation.” “Without
a doubt he is holding meetings with people from high echelons of power”,
he added.
Regarding what he is going to do after his resignation, Zinchenko made
a joke: “After this press-conference, I am going to go out and have
dinner with my friends, and then we’ll start figuring out what to
do next”.
He also rejected the possibility of becoming a Ukrainian ambassador in
Russia. “This is a fascinating idea. It either comes from PR-technologists,
or … I am not going to engage in speculations in this regard”,
Zinchenko said.
Regarding why the President paid no attention to the facts of interfering
with the work of the Secretariat before, as Zinchenko told him, Zinchenko
said that “the main reason for that is that we were all still under
the influence of the Maidan, and we all hoped that the Maidan will give
us a foundation to formulate not only organizational, but also moral and
ethical bases of the government.”
“I heard from the President several times, that this [the interference]
is impossible, that it can’t be so. This is his moral-ethical position,
he is just like all of us who were on the Maidan and who expected a unique
ethical and moral behavior from their colleagues. That is why I understand
him, I understand why he did not react right away, however, I think he
will react”, the ex-Secretary said.
At the same time, Zinchenko is confident that Yushchenko is surrounded
by “loyal, honest, expert politicians”. “There are people
who are ready to speak honestly, to speak the language of the truth. There
are other people who want to cover up…”, he continued.
About whether he discussed the situation with Tymoshenko, Zinchenko responded:
“No, I did not discuss this kind of questions with Tymoshenko because
these questions concern in the first place the President… As for
having a more general discussion of a number of steps that would allow
directing the country into the future, yes, of course, we spoke about
that. We spoke about the system of actions in the hierarchy of power,
about specific positions in certain areas, however we did not discuss
the specifics of this,” Zinchenko said.
“It is not about me going to chair some political campaign. As of
today, I am pursuing other goals,” he added. Zinchenko dismissed
rumors about his agreement with Tymoshenko about leading the Bloc of Yulia
Tymoshenko.
“There can’t be such a document, because there is no such
a document and there can’t be. I, of course, have been discussing
all political issues with Yulia Volodymyrivna because Yulia Volodymyrivna
and Yushchenko were the leaders of the bloc. After she became the Prime
Minister, all the questions that had to do with cadre or other questions
we, of course discussed. As for all other issues, they can only be discussed
with the President,” Zinchenko told.
At the same time, Zinchenko announced that he did not make any demands
regarding his resignation, in his words, he was talking about his propositions
and conditions of his partaking in the “team play.”
Regarding his role in the electoral campaign, he stated that he is already
in it.
“Any political action, any statement, definitely will influence
the campaign. For now, I am thinking about the format of the electoral
campaign, however all the questions about what it is going to be, what
political force to join, whether to join or not to join are not yet as
salient. There were partisan propositions, of course, both before and
after the resignation. This will ultimately have to do with my personal
decision, but it will be made later,” Zinchenko said.
Regarding journalists’ requests to comment on the statement of Vladyslav
Kas’kiv’s statement about the fact that he was designated
to reform the President’s Secretariat and that, in their opinion,
this could have influenced his decision, Zinchenko said that they have
had “long friendly relations.”
In his words, Kas’kiv and him worked on the structure of the Secretariat
together. He also clarified Kas’kiv’s statement that Yushchenko
instructed him to reform the Secretariat. According to him, he only received
a “formal task from to finish up, for example, the procedure of
choosing candidates for a position.”
“That is what he is working on, and it seems to be he is close to
finishing up,” Zinchenko said.
Regarding the exact atmosphere of Yushchenko’s conversation with
Zinchenko when the President accepted his resignation, the ex-Secretary
said that he brought the resignation to the President in person.
At the same time he refused to comment on his relations with the President.
“We spoke absolutely calmly, with mutual understanding, several
times, and let me keep all the details to myself”, he only said.
Zinchenko also dismissed rumors that his dismissal is linked to the statement
of Tymoshenko’s adviser Mykhailo Brodskyi about corruption in the
President’s circle and about accusations against Poroshenko. “It
[the resignation] has nothing to do with Brodskyi’s statement, NZF…In
politics, all the events have to go through a gestation period. Some positions
had to take 1.5-2 months to develop”, - he said, adding that “the
unhealthy elements who are a part of the government need to be dismissed
as soon as possible.”
Zinchenko gave a negative answer to the question about possibilities of
future dismissals in the Secretariat. “I do not think that any substantial
resignations will take place in the Secretariat, you are familiar with
the President’s position… All the colleagues continue working
for the President,”- he said.
Regarding whether Zinchenko is planning on joining the opposition, Zinchenko
said that he did not know what “today’s opposition”
was. “I think that today’s opposition is so disorganized and
incapable of making any serious steps that I believe the situation that
is developing from within the government is going to be the decisive one.
The government itself will have a better understanding of what has been
happening…”
Returning to the topic of the President’s team, Zinchenko announced
that there are many “pragmatists, patriots, honest people”
there, and that there are people “who usurp who can unite and organize
very fast”. In his words, they concentrate and they are hard to
defeat for “the decent people who come to power.”
Regarding whether Zinchenko can present any proof of corruption, and whether
he is ready to present it in court, the ex-Secretary said that “if
you look around, you will see the proof”. “I suggest that
Petr Oleksiyovych puts my argumentation on his site, or even better, that
he makes a survey via channel 5… It would be interesting to see
how many percent, how many calls there will be in support or against such
a point of view”, Zinchenko suggested.
“However, without a doubt, an ex-Secretary who handles all documents
of any importance in this country, definitely keeps track of some situations…
Who to believe to – is the President’s decision. It is his
job, to make any conclusions based on his communications. This is the
President’s responsibility, that is why he is the President. He
watches, he listens, he observes the situation…” he said.
Zinchenko also said that he did not receive any personal criticism from
Yushchenko at the time of their conversation.
The President constructively discussed the Secretariat’s job, as
he usually does. It was a normal working meeting. If somebody thinks that
the President has time to call a council meeting and make announcements
of gratitude, he is misunderstanding the job…”, he said, adding
that “there were no particular criticisms.”
According to Zinchenko, “nothing terrible” happened after
his resignation. “I think, overall, there are different ways to
influence [i.e., to handle the situation]… There are two first vice
presidents, there is a system of organization… It is not as consequential
as it seems… The work goes on,” he said.
Zinchenko also said that he did not consider a possibility that the President
would not sign his resignation. “What is there to think about, if
at 8pm the President said that he would sign the resignation. He announced
his decision via Irina Gerashchenko (Yushchenko’s press secretary)”,
he added.
Regarding how Zinchenko is going to defend his statement in the future,
Zinchenko responded: “I will act instead of talking about how I
am going to act.”
Zinchenko also promised to accept invitations from different channels,
except for channel 5 who is considered close to Poroshenko, to participate
in “open discussions”. “Whether either today or tomorrow,
and on which channel – this is my decision.. We will be having an
open public discussing during the coming week”, he promised.
Regarding journalists’ requests to report on his work as the Secretary
of State, Zinchenko said that “there have been changes in the Secretariat
since day one.”
“We have been working on reforms with Kas’kiv for 3 months.
We agreed that we will approve of the first structure of the secretariat,
we agreed that this would be a temporary structure while we are adapting
it to new circumstances,” Zinchenko stated.
In his words, the Secretariat “has been the glue holding the government’s
machine together”. “There is a need to bring everybody together,
to have a cementing force. There is a need to have experts of the Cabinet,
of civil organizations”, he added.
“The first thing that I will turn to my colleagues with will have
to do with working for the President. I am all about working on actively
helping the President on all these questions”, Zinchenko said in
the end of his press-conference.
After Zinchenko, Petro Poroshenko took his place in the audience hall
of Interfax.
“Friends, today is probably one of the hardest days in my life –
I am of course disappointed about the behavior of Oleksandr Zinchenko
and bear direct responsibility for it, since I was the one who during
the President’s electoral campaign came to Oleksandr Oleksiyovych
and invited him to join the team, I was the one who convinced then a Presidential
candidate Yushchenko that he is a person who will significantly strengthen
the team, who has team spirit and who has proved and can prove that the
interests of the Maidan, interests of the winning team, and responsibility
to the Maidan for fulfilling the promises we made to it – are our
common goal”, that is how Petro Poroshenko started his speech.
“Without a doubt, I still hold a position in the government, that
is why I cannot make comments like a politician could on the act committed
by Oleksandr Oleksiyovych. I could explain it by different things –
that he is tired, that he is emotionally strained. However, it felt especially
nice to me that during all the time that he was reading his text and then
when he was giving his answers he did not once look straight into my eyes.
I think that Oleksandr Oleksiyovych Zinchenko, as the Secretary of State
had all the necessary governmental power at his disposal to hold all those
he accuses of being guilty accountable for their actions. Moreover, it
was exactly to him that the President, in his decree, trusted fighting
corruption and whom he designated to create a group to fight corruption
consisting of the Security Service, the Office of the Prosecutor General,
the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the group that worked for a few months.
He had a responsibility to coordinate actions to fight corruption in the
highest echelons of the government.
I think that it was Zinchenko’s duty to investigate the circumstances
and to actually bring to justice those who engage in corrupt behavior
– no matter what kind of information he possessed, be it information
about land relations, about enforcing the law, or anything else; he should
not have made unfounded accusations to the press – that is the job
of the opposition.
Every point made by Oleksandr Oleksiyovych…Regarding the committee
on land relations – it is not its function to make decisions about
distribution of land, its function is merely normative regulation. Decrees
that make effective decisions of the Security Council about land relations
have been in the Secretariat for 2 months. That is when according to the
Constitution and to the law they are to be prepared by the Security Council
and passed on for signature without any amendments. The decree on investments
has not been signed for 2 months.
Not a single cadre appointment either in the Rada or in the hierarchy
of the government happens without the personal signature of Oleksandr
Oleksiyovych and his approval. It also concerns duties of the Secretary
of the Security council who is consulted with only on 2-3% of all the
appointments, the rest of the appointments happen without the Secretary’s
consultation.
I think that it is high time Oleksandr Oleksiyovych made certain conclusions
about the work of the Secretariat of the President over the last 7 months.
It would be worth it to report on the Secretariat’s achievements
over these7 months. On how the hierarchy of the government and the executive
branch is organized, on the Secretariat’s relations with regional
state administrations, how cadre politics takes place…
Or is it that, overall, we have the post of the Secretary of State when
in Ukraine there is no hierarchy of State Secretaries in Ministries, which
could truly endanger the administration. I have not been preparing for
this press conference. I acted as a person, not as a Secretary of the
Security Council. I just wanted to attend it, and I think that resignation
of Brodsky, letter of resignation from Oleksandr Oleskiyovych are all
merely about breaking the government’s team apart from within. I
am sure that this will not happen.
I would like to say that Petro Poroshenko is an absolutely self-sufficient
person, he has never held to and will never hold on to a position. He
has not grown a kopek, a single stock, richer since he took on the job.
And this is how he will leave the government.
I am stating that the secretary of the Security Council has no influence
either on the Office of the Prosecutor General, or on the Ministry of
Internal Affairs, or on the Security Council. This vivid discussion and
all the accusations that we apply pressure to reform the system of law
enforcement provide clear evidence that leaders of our law enforcement
system can independently express their point of view.
I am stating that I am ready for any public debates with Zinchenko, or
with anybody else because we need to demonstrate absolutely honest and
transparent standards of governance.
A key achievement of the administration is an absolutely different situation
in the mass media. We have truly different mass media today. Our TV channels
are different, and now we can have a public discussion on any of them.
Do you know what I would like to hear? At least one specific fact about
any of the names he mentioned. At least one specific fact – there
is this act, we investigated, I am ready to prove. I have not heard a
single one…
I am sure that the things can develop in two ways. First is that the team
will come together and unite and demonstrate to the people that the government,
the President’s Secretariat, the Security Council, and political
parties can act together as a team.
The other is to run away and be a by-stander. That is why I believe that
there is nothing heroic about resigning… Abandoning the ship, I
think, is not a sign of true heroism.”
He expressed an opinion that this is Zinchenko’s way to start his
electoral campaign as a part of “Pora.”
“I believe that somebody convinced him that as the Secretary he
has no political perspectives. I think that sociological data indicated
his popularity and that this is high time he took the leadership of “Pora,”
and started his electoral campaign as a part of “Pora”; today
we are witnessing the beginning of this campaign,” Poroshenko stated.
“I am stating that Zinchenko, as the Secretary of State, had all
the power to call upon and hold responsible everybody he is talking about,”
Poroshenko said.
“I never heard a singe argument or a single critique or demand from
Mr. Zinchenko”, Poroshenko added. “It is absolutely unexpected
for me to learn that he had been living and knowing all those facts of
corruption that he is talking about,” Poroshenko stated.
In Poroshenko’s opinion, “everything that is taking place
discredits the administration and each aspect of it.” He also expressed
an opinion that accusations of his corruptness are caused by the fact
that his behavior “disturbs peace of certain cliques, certain clans.”
It is in this context that he mentioned the reform of the law enforcement
system which he proposed and that, in his opinion, “concerns especially
broad corrupt circles.”
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